The Do’s and Don’ts of Interviewing and Hiring

Monday, May 21, 2012

I mentioned in the last edition that I would elaborate on why "being understood" is vital to recruiting and retention, and provide a way of thinking about it that will hopefully change your goal of the interview. But, before I lay out the key ingredients to hiring and retention, I want all of us to agree on what doesn't work.

Recruiting the best new agents requires a thorough understanding of how the best recruits think and reach decisions. It also requires an understanding of the natural conflict that occurs inside the minds of people further down the ladder of the recruiting pipeline…the people who are just beginning to ponder the possibility of becoming an agent.

Many managers have told me, point blank, that they have no time to waste on someone who has trouble deciding if real estate is right for them. One manager said, "If I have to interview a person for more than 20 minutes, then the candidate isn't right for real estate." Here's another one I hear a lot: "If they don't have a license, then I'm not interested."

The managers who say this are immensely confident in their views. For the first few years that I partnered with companies in this industry, I naturally had to respect their views because I hadn't seen enough to gauge the accuracy, or fallacy, of what they were so convinced of.

But now I've gathered ample evidence to suggest that the above philosophy of interviewing new agent candidates rarely uncovers the best candidates. In many cases, this approach attracts the most desperate and insecure candidates, who fake cooperation and decisiveness just to get the approval of the impatient and narcissistic manager. Much like dating, ineffectual people are attracted to abusive partners.

Here's three statements that I believe have proven true:

“You cannot fully predict who will be successful.”
“The smartest candidates must be treated with the upmost success from the first encounter.”
“The worst candidates are the most desperate, and are less likely to react aversely to rude and devaluing behavior by the manager.”

To continue the dating analogy… When you want to choose your (best) life partner, you assume that he/she will be understandably cautious and most likely not tolerate any sense of narcissism, correct?

Fortunately, most managers I've met genuinely want to know how to interview well. They are hungry to understand what's going on inside the minds of high-caliber people, but many have not discovered the secret sauce to attraction, and retention.

When it comes to interviewing the best candidates, you have to change your entire mindset. Interviewing well is counterintuitive to much of what many have been taught, such as selling features, selling the company, or selling yourself as a manager. As I mentioned in the last article, the most talented candidates want to be understood before hearing any of this. They don't want to listen to you drone on and on about yourself or your company.

In addition, the best fruit will probably not be low hanging. Any one of your competitors can find those folks–they're easy to find, but there is a finite number of them. We have droves of apple orchards in Washington State. If all the workers competed for the apples that had already dropped to the ground or that hung on the lowest branches, it might be easier work, but is it better? The answer is no. The best harvesters are those on ladders, working to get to the hardest to reach apples…the best apples.

The better companies will be willing to spend time and energy to attract the candidates who are already good at what they do, but happen to work in different industries. They will have the patience to court these people over several months of indecisiveness, licensing school, and occasional second thoughts? To repeat – The brightest and most motivated people will not say yes right away.

Who, among you, is willing to turn over enough rocks and do the necessary work to dislodge those hard to find diamonds? Doing this takes patience, consistent engagement, and finesse.

The finesse part is knowing how to talk to people who you suspect will become very good agents, but who might not be able to pull the trigger as fast as you'd like. This is often the hard part. How do you get them to arrive at "yes" without sounding like an impatient salesman? The brightest candidates will resist that pressure.

In part three of this discussion I promise to detail the "secret sauce" to interviewing, hiring and retention…It's called "Attachment through Attunement."

Editor's Note: This article was written by Dr. David Mashburn. Dave is a Clinical and Consulting Psychologist, a Partner at Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. Comments or questions are welcome. If you're an email subscriber, reply to this WorkPuzzle email. If you read the blog directly from the web, you can click the "comments" link below.

Interviewing and The Art of Not Talking

Wednesday, May 16, 2012

The most counterintuitive principle of interviewing is the discipline and art of listening well. It is the magic sauce, if you will, in the recipe of winning a person over to you and your company.

Despite this fact, hiring managers never cease to talk endlessly about themselves and their company, to the detriment of their recruiting numbers.

In my recent road trips to visit numerous clients and prospects, I was reminded of this erroneous misconception and our need to revisit this topic occasionally, addressing how to bring about change to the way managers approach the interview exchange.

Where do we get the impression that people will be impressed by us and decide to change their lives because of what we say, or how much we know? Know this: Only the most desperate candidates will be impressed by what you say…and the best candidates will probably be repelled.

So, what do candidates need? They need to be understood.

Everyone likes to be understood, but it is never more important than when a person is considering a massive life change, like the decision to become a realtor, or to move from one office to another (or even buying a house for that matter).

In their moment of crucial contemplation, what makes us think that learning more about us will be the critical information that helps a candidate decide whether to radically alter their life? It might be how you’ve been trained to interview, or in some cases it could be your ego. How do we check our ego at the door when we have been presented with the sacred task of guiding a person through this big decision?

You may begin to think that I am suggesting that we not “sell” our office or ourselves at all. I’m not. I am simply saying that you must first thoroughly understand the candidate's story before you deserve to speak into their lives. In other words you must attract and not promote.

So, I want you to experiment with this idea. In your next interview, commit yourself to understanding the candidate completely. You accomplish this by asking questions about their story…with relevant and numerous questions. Get to know them and then ask them what they want to know about your company. Let them take the lead, and discover what the art of not talking can accomplish.

In the next edition, I’ll elaborate on why being understood is vital to recruiting and retention. I will offer a way of thinking about all of this that will change your goal of the interview…

HIRING YOUNG AGENTS: THE REAL ESTATE AGENT GENE–Part 2

Monday, May 14, 2012

I decided to follow-up the last WorkPuzzle I wrote on the importance of entrepreneurism in the hiring of “new to real estate” agents… For young people, I believe this is a particularly healthy framework from which to approach a real estate career.

Why? Because starting a business captures a unique balance between an individual’s hope for the future and the expectation that to pursue that hope, he/she will most likely need to follow a path that is long and difficult.

Approaching a real estate career from a traditional job perspective is a completely different proposition. The job framework may cause people to expect quick payoffs and become discouraged when they do not materialize.

In relation to this topic, I recently came across an interview conducted by a writer from Nashville named Jeff Goins. The interview is with Chris Guillebeau, author of a new book called The $100 Startup.

This interview (and the book as well) peaked my interest because it documents the stories of hundreds of individuals who were willing to step out and start a business. Here is part of the interview:

Jeff: What’s the $100 Startup about, and why is it needed?

Chris: Two things: first, it’s the collective story of 1,500 “unexpected entrepreneurs” who all started businesses without a lot of money or special skills. Second, it’s a blueprint for readers who want to create their own freedom by doing something they love.

It’s needed because people are dissatisfied. They want more from life than a soul-sucking job that takes their energy without providing much in return.

People have always been dissatisfied, of course, but they haven’t always known which steps to take to create independence. The book is an attempt at providing 300 pages of next steps.

Jeff: In the book, you tell stories of businesses you’ve seen launched on a bootstrapped budget all around the world. What was one of the most interesting ones?

Chris: The book includes a wide range of stories, from six-figure blogging businesses to retail shops. It’s hard to pick a favorite, but since you’re a writer, I’ll point you to Brett Kelly’s success.

Brett was a self-described geek who wrote the first eBook on Evernote, the free note-taking software. This project earned more than $100,000 in its first year, and allowed Brett and his family to get out of debt.

It’s an incredible success, of course, but in researching the book and talking to people, I heard story after story like Brett’s. It seems that success can indeed be replicated, if you take the right steps.

Jeff: You live your life, traveling the world and supporting yourself online. What is it about this lifestyle that attracts you, and what advice do you have for aspiring entrepreneurs?

Chris: Personally I couldn’t imagine doing it any other way. I’ve been self-employed for nearly 15 years and extensively traveling for 10 years. I love what I do and wouldn’t trade it for anything.

My advice to aspiring entrepreneurs is always focus on value. Value is one of those words that is often used without much definition. My definition is that value simply means “helping people.”

You aren’t likely to succeed as an entrepreneur, digital nomad, or whatever business goal you aspire to without helping people. In other words, you can do what you love, but you must find a way to connect that with other people’s needs.

There are two lines that stand out to me in this interview.

1. "It’s needed because people are dissatisfied. They want more from life than a soul-sucking job that takes their energy without providing much in return."

This is so true. Many of the people that you will interview are languishing in their current jobs. Tap into those feelings of dissatisfaction as you listen to their stories. Attuning youself to their struggles will create attachment. The first step to leaving an existing career is feeling some attachment to something new.

2. "The book is an attempt at providing 300 pages of next steps."

This is where I believe your own creativity will be sparked. When you are interviewing someone you believe will make a great agent, but who faces some obstacles (usually financial challenges), you need to offer a series of small steps that he/she can take towards becoming an agent. Unfortunately, recruiting is not a transaction. It's a process that takes time, focus, and effort to complete.

Here’s some homework for you—get this book and read it. As you read it, jot down notes about some of the stories that would most closely apply to a real estate career. And then, during your next interview, spend a small amount of time selling the idea of becoming an entrepreneur. As we learned last week, those candidates who light up when presented with this idea, just may have the real estate gene.

Editor's Note: This article was written by Ben Hess. Ben is the Founding Partner and Managing Director of Tidemark, Inc. and a regular contributor to WorkPuzzle. Comments or questions are welcome. If you're an email subscriber, reply to this WorkPuzzle email. If you read the blog directly from the web, you can click the "comments" link below.

Hiring Young Agents: The Real Estate Agent Gene?

Wednesday, May 09, 2012

I received lots of lively discussion from the last WorkPuzzle blog I wrote. Some of it was very positive. For example, the general manager of a large real estate company on the East Coast noted,

“[One of the managers you recently met with] hired seven new licensees in April. Six of these new hires are under the age of 35. It has changed the office dynamic in a couple of weeks.”

While others were less excited. The owner of a prominent real estate company in the Midwest wrote,

“[What you’re saying] makes sense on paper, Ben, but we sure haven’t seen it. In fact, we had four or five under thirty, quick in/quick out hiring failures in our flagship office, to the great discouragement of our manager there.

[Our executive team] has talked about a quality we call 'being settled' that an under thirty needs to have before they really take real estate as something more than an alternative to waiting tables. Being settled often means being married or partnered up 'permanently,' and that spouses or partners have a solid, real, job. Absent being settled, these young folk seem to be drifting and real estate is deadly for them. They don’t have the discipline it takes. I continue to be intrigued that you are bullish on this hiring sector.”

One of the executives from the same company added,

“I certainly don’t know how to build it into a profile, but with both young and not-so-young, one of the largest determining factors is willingness to embrace the concept of commission-only and to invest money and time into the start-up [of a new] career.”

There is no doubt this is a challenging task. Figuratively, I’ve only provided you a prospector’s map to the location of a site that has valuable gems. Locating the site is the easy part. Mining the gems is much more risky, difficult, and frustrating.

I know many of you have noticed patterns (ex. “being settled”) as you’ve done your own mining for hires. So, please email me what you’ve learned and I’ll share some of these best practices in an upcoming WorkPuzzle discussion.

While experience is probably the best teacher, we can also look to research to help us be more effective hiring managers. Daniel McGinn (a contributor to Inc. Magazine) recently highlighted research done by professors Edward Mungai and S. Ramakrishna Velamuri, on the characteristics of individuals who start businesses.

The starting point for the research was the existence of several studies that firmly established that children of entrepreneurs are two to three time more likely to launch out on their own than are the kids of traditional salary earners.

But digging further into the data provided some interesting insights:

“The researchers plumbed the Panel Study of Income Dynamics, a longitudinal data set run by the University of Michigan that has followed nearly 8,000 representative U.S. families. First, they identified people who left traditional jobs to become self-employed. Using the family income data, the researchers determined how the businesses fared in subsequent years.

They looked for signs of a start-up gone bad: founders who were later unemployed, left the business after suffering losses, or reentered the traditional work force at a lower wage. Next, they looked at the kids of these entrepreneurs and determined how old they were when their parents ran companies. Researchers then examined whether the children ultimately became self-employed themselves.

The researchers found that kids who were young adults (18 to 21) when their parents ran companies seemed to be most influenced by Mom's or Dad's choice of career path. The research also confirms that parents who fail in a business seem to act as 'negative role models,' making their kids significantly less likely to launch a company. But this was mainly true for older kids who had seen a parent's business crumble. Younger children were not as affected.”

Is this research the holy grail for hiring young agents? I don’t think so. But, it is one factor that may contribute to your success as a hiring manager. Combined with other best practices, we may be able to piece together a “field manual” for bringing young people into real estate.

What have you noticed in hiring young agents?

A PROCRASTINATION OF PROSPECTING PARADIGM SHIFT

Monday, May 07, 2012

We are sometimes faced with uncomfortable situations or daunting tasks, both in our personal, and in our professional lives. In real estate, or sales in general, prospecting seems to fall into this category. Picking up the phone to cold call and deal with a potential negative interaction or rejection doesn’t resonate well with many people, so they do not execute, thus adversely impacting their overall success.

In past blogs I have discussed the notion of “re-framing” how we think about recruiting. Specifically, I conveyed the benefit of shifting from our pre-conceived notion of the term recruiting, to the task of building relationships, which is something most real estate or sales managers do well naturally, and as a result enjoy. It occurred to me that perhaps “re-framing” the task of prospecting could be beneficial as well, both in terms of recruiting, but also in your agents’ sales process.

I recently read a blog by Anthony Iannarino, Chief Sales Officer of a staffing firm and Director of a coaching consulting firm, that touched on the procrastination of prospecting paradigm. Iannarino not only points out the importance and simplicity of prospecting in a successful sales business, but also touches on the ramifications of not picking up the phone.

“If you spent more time prospecting, more time cold calling and opening relationships, you would have more opportunities. You’d even have a stronger pipeline. But your resistance to prospecting keeps you from doing as well as you might.

Knowing all of this is true probably still isn’t enough for you to stop procrastinating. You may not even be motivated by the fact that your fiercest competitors are prospecting, and they are calling your existing client and dream clients (just ask them). There is a simple solution that makes prospecting easier.

Just start making calls.

If you run or do any aerobic exercise, you know how uncomfortable it is to get started. My friends who run tell me that it takes them 3 or 4 miles to finally get their body to adjust. That metaphor works for prospecting. It’s just like that.

The most difficult call you make is the first call. It has nothing to do with who you call or the outcome of that call. It has everything to do with overcoming the internal resistance to starting. Each call after the first gets easier. You adjust. You find your rhythm. It gets easier.

This is why it’s important to prospect early in the day. That’s when you have the mental focus and the greatest capacity to overcome your resistance. As the day goes on, you will find other work to take the place of prospecting, and the world will start making demands of you.”

This new paradigm can be applied both in your recruiting process as well as in the training, coaching, and professional development of new and experienced agents. Helping them to understand this prospecting framework may help them develop successful habits and a newfound commitment to prospecting in their own business.

Editor's Note: Lee Gray is the Senior Account Manager at Tidemark Inc. Lee is a guest contributor to WorkPuzzle. Comments or questions are welcome. If you're an email subscriber, reply to this WorkPuzzle email. If you read the blog directly from the web, you can click the "comments" link below.

You Can’t Handle the Truth

Wednesday, May 02, 2012

“You can’t handle the truth” are the famous words uttered by Jack Nicholson’s character in the 1992 classic movie, “A Few Good Men.”

In business, as well as any relationship, truth is either withheld completely, allowed to trickle out disguised, or delivered with excessive amounts of criticism and hostility. I'm not sure which is the worst, but fortunately we are given a much better alternative — clear, objective truth delivered from personal observation or concrete data.

One very successful businessman and friend goes so far as to say “Everyone deserves the truth.” He says this with a near religious conviction. Whether positive or negative news, he believes that it's compassionate to always describe truth. Without it, we are potentially lost, confused, wandering, underachieving, and less than our best. One of the pioneers of organizational psychology, Dr. Harry Levinson said, "Leaders must be able to face and deliver reality if they want to lead well."

When we believe that people “can’t handle the truth” we are typically projecting our own pre-conceived (and unconscious) views of the world onto them. We tend to get bogged down by our old fears and become frozen in our current situation. When in reality, people can't grow, and the current situation will not improve, without truth.

I want to be clear here. I am not talking about brutal honesty that comes across as mean, uncaring, or overly critical. I am talking about direct and loving discussion about what we observe, and what we interpret as a result.

If you didn’t catch the key words there— they are WE observe and WE interpret. Notice that I didn’t say “YOU do this—YOU do that.” When you make your observations personal, you leave the other person plenty of room to disagree and to offer their own observations. Using "we" is less likely to put the other person on the defensive right out of the gate. A verse from the Bible says: “Speak the truth in a spirit of love.” This is the key…How you convey your message will largely impact how it is received.

If you have been waiting to tell someone the truth, do it compassionately, following this formula:

Share your observation of the data –- Behavior etc
Share your interpretations of this data — Behavior
Clearly tell them your expectations. Leave no room for error — Ask them to repeat what is expected.

While I know these conversations can be difficult, you owe it to yourself, your company, and your employees to be truthful, even when it hurts in the short run. We can't grow without reality.